Do you believe in God?

[Dr. Madd]

Originally Posted by LABK

If you hold these beliefs, I can't help you. You are beyond the bounds of what any reason can sway.

Nice way to not man up and tell us. Now it's time for everyone's favorite game....COUNT THE INSULTS!

Originally Posted by LABK

yet another case of your arrogant ass making ASSUMPTIONS. You ASSUME that I have read those and that's where I am getting my position. You don't have a damn piece of evidence to show that that's where I am getting my position, but your dismissive, elitist punk-ass thinks it can write me off like that. Well guess what you fucking punk, I got my positions from my own mind and not from reading other people's stuff, so why don't you shut your goddamn assumption-making mouth you asshole! Again, you make shit up for the sake of discrediting me. You think you have me "figured out" and that you can just make assumptions. You can't even entertain the thought that I may have thought up my beliefs myself. That just goes to show what an elitist piece of shit you are. Some will undoubtedly attack me for making this personal, but before you bitch at me, stop to think for half a goddamn second. What am I supposed to say to someone who is so arrogant that they make a straight up ASSUMPTION about how I got my beliefs and treat it like fact??

Did everyone else get five? I did! Now.. for the rebuttal.....

1.considering your attitude towards any dissent from your world view, boy, I wouldn't be throwing "arrogant" at people.. it might just Boomerang.

2. You haven't read Nieztche? Hey Guys, Mr. Philosopher's never read Nieztche!

3. I write off your ass, because you make this big deal of cramming atheism down everyone else's throat, and you got both jack and shit to back it up.

4. Got your ideas from your own mind? And you call me Arrogant? Your Ego knows no bounds, little man. Now I know why you hate God. In your megalomaniac mind, God is Competition. So I suggest shoving the words "Arrogant" and "Elitist" Up your self-satisfied, smarmy ass and rotate them, while drinking a nice cup of STFU.

5. If I made up that you read Philosophers, Then you're more pretentious than educated. You're a fucking poser who thinks atheism makes them look smart.

6. Don't attack this runt for attacking me. I was willing to have a civil conversation... But as a fortune Cookie I once read said... " He who flings mud out of ammunition"

and I'll add to this from another cookie and I thought of you. "Show-off always shown up in Showdown."

Wanna get personal, you nappy headed reject from a 60's peace rally? You look like one of the Dutch Masters if they lived in a trailer park.. You wanna insult people? Let's rumble!

[FKLBRLS]

Originally Posted by Cortana

Same here, FK. I was going through alot of dark times last year, lots of crap that I had buried was surfacing every other day, and it was dragging me down. But, I got through it with help and prayers, and I don't plan to go back.

You know, so many Christians out there are so eager for the Rapture to occur, wanting to see heaven, etc, but I believe you can find heaven here on earth; you just have to know how to look for it.

I take in example the movie AVATAR. When Jake was wandering through the forests of Pandora, he was overwhelmed by the beauty of things that we normally take for granted just because it's "there". When I lived back in Cali, I would take walks in the forest, and I would connect with God through the nature that He created, and I was in my own little heaven for a time.

This is something I need to keep reminding myself sometimes, as I do tend to get overwhelmed by the negatives all too often. One thing I found that helped was driving around in the middle of the night. The stillness and tranquility of city streets at night is quite calming. The same goes for long road trips at night, in the middle of nowhere, where it was just me, the road, and the night sky. It's a very "holy" experience, pure in its simplicity and reflecting its creator.

[Blacksheep]

Originally Posted by FKLBRLS

........ The same goes for long road trips at night, in the middle of nowhere, where it was just me, the road, and the night sky. It's a very "holy" experience, pure in its simplicity and reflecting its creator.

Ohhh man, I love solo road trips across the country. 2am, summer, in some desert. Its one of my favorites.
That and over nighters in the middle of nowhere, you're right, its very Holy.

PS, I marked "Yes, but not the God in the Bible."

[madcowhunter]

Originally Posted by Socialist Swine

Out with it...

The acceptance of anything supernatural represents a rejection of the basic concepts that establish the base of all knowledge. These axiomatic concepts are the fundamental roots of knowledge, they are inescapable self-evidencies that are contained in the base of all concepts. They are preconditions of thought. They are inescapable because it is impossible to make any attempt to invalidate them without first confirming them. Arguments in favor of the supernatural are examples of such attempts.

Consider the statement "The 8-ball lands into the corner pocket." Even in a statement such as this, all of the axiomatic concepts are validated: the concepts being Existence, Consciousness, and Identity, as well as their corollary causality.

Existence is the first axiom of philosophy, and the foundation of all other axioms; it is verbally illustrated as "existence exists," and taken to mean that there is existence, as opposed to non-existence, or there is something as opposed to nothing. Existence is the broadest of all axioms and subsumes all existents, though it doesn't say anything specific in regards to the individual identities of existents other than the fact that they exist. The second axiom Consciousness is a derivative of Existence; it is a derivative because it is established at the fact that you are aware of Existence. The axiom of Consciousness is inherent in the fact that you grasp Existence. A variant of this axiom which you are probably familiar with was described by Descartes: I think, therefore I am. The problem with Descartes' formulation is that it describes Consciousness as having primacy over Existence. This is flawed however, because it is a denial of the first axiom "Existence exists." If Existence exists, then it cannot be a derivative of consciousness; this is because it is a contradiction to describe Consciousness as apart from Existence, to do so is essentially to say that Consciousness can exist with Existence... It is completely contradictory. Existence therefore, has primacy over Consciousness, and Consciousness therefore can be only a faculty of perception, not creation or reality manipulation. Do you understand? The third axiom, Identity is implicit in the axiom of Existence. Identity is inseparable from Existence, because Identity is what distinguishes Existence from non-existence. The axiom of Identity states that to exist, is to be something in particular; to not be something in particular (i.e., to have no specific, finite, non-contradictory distinguishable traits) is to be nothing in particular, to not exist. Therefore, in order to recognize Existence, you must recognize Identity. And in recognizing, you are also recognizing Consciousness. The axioms are Existence, Consciousness, and Identity. Existence has primacy over Consciousness. Consciousness is a faculty of perceiving (not altering or creating) Existence. Things that exist have Identity: a specific, non-contradictory and finite nature. Now, consider the statement "The 8-ball lands into the corner pocket" again. In this statement (and in every ever uttered), the three concepts are inescapable. By uttering the statement, you are suggesting that you are aware (Consciousness) of something (Identity) that exists (Existence).

The belief in the supernatural represents a rejection of these basic axioms. Just what is the supernatural? It is any phenomenon that supposedly exists apart from and beyond the natural world and its laws. Nothing can exist apart from nature, it is a violation of Existence. Nothing supernatural can create or alter the natural world, Consciousness does not have primacy over Existence. Nothing supernatural can be considered infinite, to exist is to be something in particular. Nothing supernatural can be devoid of a physical body, Consciousness cannot exist without Existence. Nothing can exist that is impossible to be understood, to do so is to suggest that it has qualities exist apart from Existence and Identity. Nothing can be omnipotent, everything that exists must have a finite nature.

Any assertion of the supernatural is a demonstration of rejecting the axioms in one way or another, which is impossible to do without first validating them. This is true, even for that genius Christopher Langan. Any "proof" for the existence of God rests on the validity of the axioms. The axioms are the root of all knowledge, even the Scientific Method (especially the Scientific Method). Christopher Langan cannot make any attempt to prove the supernatural without making use of the very axioms his conclusion intends to reject.

[Socialist Swine]

Fantastic response, and I have to agree.

[NonConformist]

Originally Posted by Socialist Swine

Fantastic response, and I have to agree.

Welcome back!